CAN THE TIGER CLAW BE USED AGAINST ANY GRAPPLING ATTACKS?
Grandmaster Wong and Sifu Goh Kok Hin sparring with tiger claws
The following discussion is reproduced from the thread Grappling and Kungfu started in the Shaolin Wahnam Discussion Forum on 18th April 2003
J.J. Binks
18th April 2003
I use muscle when grappling too. I don't even realize it until I feel extremely tired very quickly. This was what originally attracted me to tai chi, since it doesn't rely on muscular strength, but I just didn't have the patience for it. Maybe when I get older.
Currently we just train jujitsu for about 15-20 minutes at the end of every workout. We don't even know what we're doing, just trying to emulate guys on UFC. But so far it's been working really well. If someone doesn't know the submissions it is very easy to get them. Doesn't require much strength. I think push hands is great too, I intend to start practicing it regularly again.
My only problem with tai chi and the kung fu I have practiced is that it doesn't really seem to provide a solution to going to the ground other than "Don't let them take you down." Ha I've heard my classmates talk about this like its nothing.
They should try fighting someone who wrestled in high school, let alone someone who wrestled in college. Now imagine fighting an Olympic wrestler. They have probably trained much longer and harder at taking someone down than we have worked on our takedown defense.
I'm not saying I don't like tai chi or kung fu. I am just saying that I choose to supplement my training with some ground-fighting too. It adds some variety to the training and makes for a lot of fun.
Anthony Korahais
USA
18th April 2003
I have a simple counter to all ground fighting. It is also one of the few techniques which can be applied on the moon:
Tiger Claw,
Juszczec
The Karate Guy
USA
18th April 2003
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Originally posted by J.J.Binks
I use muscle when grappling too. I don't even realize it until I feel extremely tired very quickly. |
According to the grappling guy I work with, everyone who knows more than him says you want to be extremely relaxed and light on your feet until the last possible moment.
I used to get exhausted really fast too. When I started following his advice (and I changed my cardio from running to swimming) I stopped getting as tired.
| We don't even know what we're doing, just trying to emulate guys on UFC. |
Well, I'm one of the few guys on earth who's never seen a UFC competition. But, in my grappling training, I'm concentrating on:
- getting them off their feet such that the head hits concrete
- breaking a joint
- choking (not so sure if I'll continue studying this)
I reason that, as a striker, either I'm taking someone down as a finishing technique or I've wound up on the ground and want to get back up ASAP.
"Its good to have a plan."
| My only problem with Tai Chi and the kung fu I have practiced is that it doesn't really seem to provide a solution to going to the ground other than "Don't let them take you down." |
Karate is much the same way. However, I've found principles in karate kata (not many, but I didn't really look too hard) that seem to suggest they contain some solution to this problem. I would suspect kung fu and tai chi are the same boat.
After all, we are talking about self defense - defending against any kind of spontaneous attack. If the forms are supposed to contain principles of self defense, then I suspect its there but we don't know what we're looking for. Cross training will help this a great deal.
BTW "Don't let them take you down" really translates to "I never came up with anything to do against that so stop asking because its embarrassing." Or, at least that's what it means in the karate world ;-)
| Ha I've heard my classmates talk about this like its nothing...they should try fighting someone who wrestled in high school, let alone someone who wrestled in college. |
2 things:
Keeping an open mind is a very difficult thing to do.
and
If ya don't know, and ya don't know ya don't know, its going to be pretty tough to figure it out on your own.
| I'm not saying I don't like tai chi or kung fu, I am just saying that I choose to supplement my training with some groundfighting too. It adds some variety to the training and makes for a lot of fun. |
I understand completely. I agree completely. I've done the same thing in my training. I am doing the same thing in my training and will continue to do so and encourage all of our students to do the same.
Mark
Chris of Shaolin Wahnam USA, a student of Sifu Anthony, apply the Tiger-Claws during sparring with Steven of Shaolin Wahnam England at the Special Shaolin Kungfu Course of January 2008
Juszczec
The Karate Guy
USA
18th April 2003
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Originally posted by Antonius
I have a simple counter to all ground fighting. It is also one of the few techniques which can be applied on the moon: Tiger Claw.
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Maybe I'm just dumb and am not getting the joke, but I find this a little hard to believe.
Here's why. Although I have no doubt a properly applied tiger claw will, at the very least, create an opening into which you can insert all manner of counters - one size does not fit all ie one technique is not suitable for all situations even if the situations are all similar.
If the tiger claw was the answer to all ground-fighting questions then we'd all learn it and strikers would have been laughing at judoka, jujutsuka, wrestlers, BJJ'ers etc etc from the beginning of time.
I ain't that way. It just ain't that way.
As for fighting on the moon - its extremely unlikely I will be getting into trouble up there ;-)
Mark
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